...Well There's An Idea: My Mace Theory [Spoilers Dawg]

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...Well There's An Idea: My Mace Theory [Spoilers Dawg]

Postby Calico Yorki on Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:24 pm

Here's a not-so-random theory I got, from a special on H2 about Zeus's Myth.

They mentioned stories about sacred children being hidden, so that they could safely grow to adulthood, and reach their destiny.

Well, who would think to look for Mace in a rundown orphanage? And what if Whip was meant to be with him? Think about this: Vol. 1, Bast vs. Mace, Whip ties up Bast's arm so that Mace can get in a good punch and save himself. Also in Vol. 1, when the Sandman is trying to throttle Mace (I believe that was the scene...), Whip bites off a chunk of its head to save him, and Whip bites into Scinter's arm and hangs on like he doesn't know how to let go, because he's trying to protect Mace. In Vol. 2, Smiley is trying to swallow Lilith, Whip saves her by biting into it. Am I the only one who thinks it curious that Whip has done so much protagonist saving?

Back to Mace. So far, Whip seems to be possessed of a Power which enables flight, dimly awakened. This is why I think that Mace is special - I think that Mace's Power is to awaken other Powers, and help them develop at a rapid rate. Since he couldn't possibly use it that well when he was young, Whip's Power is still mostly dormant. But after spending most of the day with Namah, when Lilith is placed in danger, Namah's Power awakens at just a high enough level to survive against Tinsel. When Lilith spends more time with Mace, and is swallowed by Smiley, her Power awakens, and kills it from the inside out.

Basically, this theory summarizes my beliefs on Mace, why he is special, why he was targeted by the Underlord's Minion, and why he is needed. Basically, he's not an accidental bystander, caught up in a war of Nightmares and Powers where he can't fight back. He always had to live, because his true Power is the last great weapon against the Nightmares: the Power to marshal other dreamkeepers and prepare them to fight back.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. 8 O
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Re: ...Well There's An Idea: My Mace Theory [Spoilers Dawg]

Postby Reed R Gale on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:28 am

That's a good theory, but there are a few flaws.

A halo needs to be active for a power to be active, correct? Unless this is disproven by Dave for rare cases...I wouldn't place my faith in this. Then again, how else can we explain Whip's ability?

Then there's the fact that Lilith's ability awakens in a time of need, as does Namah's. I BELIEVE that's a natural thing to happen in life threatening situations, it's like...when humans are put into a situation where they feel threatened, they find some hidden strength they didn't know they had. Things like that.

So you have a good argument, but I'd like that hole filled in.
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Re: ...Well There's An Idea: My Mace Theory [Spoilers Dawg]

Postby Calico Yorki on Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:03 pm

Hmmm...

You raise a lot of good points.

I guess I'll just have to scrap this whole theory?

I was sleep addled when I wrote this

X D
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Re: ...Well There's An Idea: My Mace Theory [Spoilers Dawg]

Postby Mr Aerospace on Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:03 pm

Woah...hang on there Reed.

I tend to agree with you on the idea that certain stressful situations can induce a power manifestation. In fact, I believe the history pages provide some solid anecdotal evidence to support this idea. (Specifically in the Toll War section). But I gotta point out that you can't use this to invalidate Calico's argument. The two proposals are not mutually exclusive.
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Re: ...Well There's An Idea: My Mace Theory [Spoilers Dawg]

Postby Reed R Gale on Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:20 pm

How so? If Mace's ability is to bring out other abilities, wouldn't his ability need to be active for it to work? This would require the halo, would it not?

Please, provide the links between my argument and Calico's theory. I'm lost. :\

And the thing with Lilith is situational evidence, indeed, and disproves nothing, but I am using it as anther possible avenue for why her power awakened so quickly.
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Re: ...Well There's An Idea: My Mace Theory [Spoilers Dawg]

Postby Mr Aerospace on Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:54 pm

:oops: My argument really didn't provide much context did it. Let's try that again without the fatigue.

Starting off with simplifying Calico's theory; The way I understand it Calico seems to suggest that Mace somehow amplifies or accelerates powers in other Keepers. For the moment, lets just leave out the rest of the theory or how that is even possible without a halo, just for the sake of the following logical argument (Don't worry, I'll come back to the rest of the issues later.)

Secondly, your second argument is that both of the girl's powers first manifest as a defensive mechanism. I said before that I tend to agree with this idea, but even if that proves to be true, it doesn't necessarily exclude Mace from having some sort of influence on the girls. It is a valid theory but not a valid argument against Calico's, as the two events described are not mutually exclusive.

---
That's where my argument stops coinciding with the current discussion. But let me borrow from some of my own theories to expand on Calico's ideas and provide a possible answer to your first point about halos and powers.

I believe there may be another very specific way that powers manifest, (amongst others). For many Keepers, life threatening situations won't ever happen, (and I suppose for those that do experience one, there'd be a few that won't survive and even less survivors having power outbursts / defensive mechanisms that save them) So, for the majority of the population then, if a power develops it is by some other means. I propose that some are more likely to be an extension of a Keepers own natural abilities and/or personalities. Take for example some of the most obvious power users so far; Tinsel, Zizka and the Indigos.
- Tinsel is beauty obsessed and her power is to control her hair.
- Zizka is quiet and reserved and his power is unnoticeability.
- The Indigos are boisterous and inseparable and their powers are linked and changes their colours.

Now, if we combine the above idea with Calico's original theory, it could be possible to explain why Mace doesn't need an active halo or power to start influencing people around him. What if Mace's personality and ideas inspire others to fight (e.g. the oar incident and the constant fighting with Grunn, the trouble at school and his meeting with Namah, the fight against smiley). If his rebellious attitude and willpower to never give in starts to rub off on the people around him, then his ability could accelerate/augment powers and be working without anyone even knowing it. This lends itself nicely to the bit in Calico's theory about why Mace needs Whip around (or perhaps just any Keeper)

--
Finally, while I may not believe it entirely, I support Calico's theory because it attempts to explain why Mace is such an important target for Nabonidus. If Mace can influence others to fight, then he could very well be the biggest potential threat to the Nightmares if he ever managed to even partially awaken his power. My biggest issue is that it still doesn't explain why Nabby wants him alive.
Last edited by Mr Aerospace on Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: ...Well There's An Idea: My Mace Theory [Spoilers Dawg]

Postby Reed R Gale on Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:10 pm

Thank you for answering my questions. Now we are left with only theories that don't counteract. I guess we'll see how they play out, eh?
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Re: ...Well There's An Idea: My Mace Theory [Spoilers Dawg]

Postby Mr Aerospace on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:36 pm

No worries Reed :D I'm just pleased that I managed to squish three independent theories into one workable pile of conjecture.

Really we don't have that much solid information/data/evidence to work with yet. Shooting down a valid yet weak idea is not necessary. I do favour ones that attempt to solve more than one problem but there are still infinite possibilities that do the same while still fitting the current data set, and I'm willing to defend those too, even if they contradict each other. On the contrary, if and when a theory contradicts the DATA then I'm more than willing to pick up the sword and put it to rest, and my own ideas are not immune to this and are usually the first to go.
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Re: ...Well There's An Idea: My Mace Theory [Spoilers Dawg]

Postby Twilight on Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:52 am

I don't think you realize how powers work XD They're something that just kind of develops on it's own during puberty(ish?) and every Dreamkeeper pretty must just kind of gets it at a certain point. What the government does is tell people to not freak out and outburst, potentially hurting others, etc.

Powers aren't a mysterious thing to Dreamkeepers, they're all very aware that they have them, and they're pretty easy to use. To that end, I honestly don't see how Mace's personality has anything to do with things at present.

Also, that was a pretty conclusive statement you made about Nainso's power XD How exactly did you arrive at that?
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Re: ...Well There's An Idea: My Mace Theory [Spoilers Dawg]

Postby Mr Aerospace on Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:15 am

We do know about powers developing during puberty. I just assumed that using a power is like driving a car. It's fairly simple to get in and start it, but most people will probably need practice and an instructor and to get any good at it, but then, if you're caught driving, you are exiled! So I suspect most people would just prefer leaving their keys in their pocket and walking.

Driving is not what we're interested in... We want to know about the car a Keeper chooses, and how they came to that choice.

As for Nainso's power, the V2 Script is a very revealing document ;) It does provide a slightly different view on events.
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