Volume 1 Schoolyard Fight

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Re: Volume 1 Schoolyard Fight

Postby Clast on Sun May 13, 2012 5:00 pm

Honestly, I have to disagree. All I know about Bast (from being a reader, and not someone "in the know," like yourself), is that he is an overly-aggressive child, who would attack his classmates over nothing. Then, in the second volume, he takes the word of people he overhears, and doesn't even know, as the basis to run off to the Starfell mountains/woods, looking for a girl he doesn't know very well, in an area we have no reason to believe he has any knowledge of. Perhaps in the third volume this will be corrected, but as of right now, the general reader has absolutely no idea of what Bast is like as a character. He cares about Lilith, but that's about it.

Mako, on the other hand, for what we've seen of him, seems like a much more sensible character, in my opinion. My main point being he is able to take agitation without getting that angry, and is more naturally able to flow with a situation. He acted in complete character whenever Korra confronts him, and when given the option for her to join their team, he takes it in stride. Bast, however, switches emotions much too quickly for my tastes. He goes from a battle raged state, to meekly asking Lilith out. His character doesn't stay consistent. I'm, to this day, still unsure why she agreed to attend the festival with him, after she had just seen him start a fight in the school hallway.

I'm sure, like you mentioned, Bast will be changed during the next volume to become a much more compelling and interesting character, but as of right now, I can't see where you are coming from. :P
Last edited by Clast on Sun May 13, 2012 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Volume 1 Schoolyard Fight

Postby Sorrel on Sun May 13, 2012 6:28 pm

Resisting the urge to speak my mind on the subject of anything Korra-related.

In the case of Bast, I hesitate to call it "character inconsistency" instead of a lackluster script. Inconsistency means that the character, in the author's head, is not very well thought-out and their background and psyche contain hiccups that don't make sense. Bast may very well fall under this category, but his total screen time in the first two volumes don't give me nearly enough information to label him as such. Instead, I file him under "poor scripting," which implies that the character is well thought-out and consistent, but their actions/words fail to give the audience enough context to see this.

In the case of the schoolyard fight (See? I AM on-topic, I promise) and all the stuff coming after it, you're right, it doesn't make sense with the context we're given. As far as we know, they're complete strangers. But I've always assumed that Bast and Lilith knew each other from school. If they were already friends, it would be believable for Bast to ask Lilith to the Harvest Festival and for Lilith to accept, even after getting in a fight with some kid neither of them seem to know. And it would then make sense for Bast to be on alert when a pair of strange women mention looking for "Lilith and Namah," since Lilith could easily have mentioned her sister in the past if Bast hasn't met her. The name Lilith on its own doesn't necessarily mean anything, but Lilith and Namah together is a pretty distinct pair.

This is a very bad thing, because if this is actually the case, the script has left it up to the reader to draw the "they already know each other" conclusion themselves with no evidence. It's a pretty basic no-no in storytelling. But David has clearly come a long way since then, and I'm confident we'll gain a lot more insight into Bast's inner workings in Volume 3.

That is not to be confused with changing or retconning his character, though. Not sure if that's what you meant.
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Schoolyard Fight descended to Bast character discussion

Postby Clast on Sun May 13, 2012 8:30 pm

Don't worry, if you want to make any of these same Bast/Mako comparisons, go ahead. No one is going to complain.

Now, otherwise, to the topic at hand. The actions Bast has committed are inconsistencies. They do not connect with each other, and do not make sense within the context. To much is left up to the reader to decide, and the responses to his actions seem unnatural and disconnected. I have complete faith that this will be corrected very soon in the release of the third volume, but as of yet, we have already reviewed all the material that we have.

To highlight them:
1. The Hallway Fight
2. Asking Lilith to the Festival
3. Standing alone at the Festival
4. Trying to enter the palace/tower
5. Overhearing the Indigo's discussion
6. Watching the Indigo's/Scinter/Igrath escape
7. Overhearing Indigo's/Scinter/Igrath plans
8. Leaving for the mountains

If I missed any, please let me know.
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Re: Volume 1 Schoolyard Fight

Postby Sorrel on Mon May 14, 2012 1:32 pm

Yeah, I think you've got them all. Though really, I do hope you're looking for simple clarification instead of a full-on retcon, because I don't think David plans to stoop that low XD
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Re: Volume 1 Schoolyard Fight

Postby Twilight on Mon May 14, 2012 1:36 pm

Looks to me like Bast made a bad first impression, but everything else he's done has been fairly caring. It's possible he might've been having a particularly bad day. Again, I don't wanna go into spoiler territory, but there ARE reasons why Bast is... Bast XD
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Re: Volume 1 Schoolyard Fight

Postby Clast on Mon May 14, 2012 3:12 pm

Eh. Even if no one else is interested in analyzing what makes a character tick, I still am. I've personally found the character threads to be disappointing for these things. I don't think any clarification can be simple at this point.
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Re: Volume 1 Schoolyard Fight

Postby Twilight on Mon May 14, 2012 4:08 pm

Well, no, you guys know little to nothing about Bast. You cannot honestly do a character analysis on him as of yet.... In fact, I'd say that you can't really do an analysis on any of the characters, yet. You haven't been exposed to certain things like how naive Namah can actually be, or how much of a little ******* Mace can be, or how decisive Lilith can be, or, as is the most relevant case, how much risk Bast is willing to put himself into for various personal reasons.

Demanding to understand any of them, especially one that's had significantly less screen time than the rest is kind of unfair ^^; give it time.
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Re: Volume 1 Schoolyard Fight

Postby Sorrel on Mon May 14, 2012 4:25 pm

Clast wrote:Even if no one else is interested in analyzing what makes a character tick, I still am.

Willingness to see storytelling failure instead of a poorly thought out character doesn't make me any less interested in how Bast works. That's a bit of a stinging assumption to make.

My interest in the subject is why I'm pointing out things that might explain those story hiccups. David wasn't the best writer when Volume 1 came out; this has been established. And because of this you can't just look to the current script to figure it all out. The right clues just aren't there, or aren't sufficiently dramatized. The storytelling was too clunky to convey proper context, so if you want to pinpoint Bast's reasons, try figuring out what the proper context might actually be. It's a harder task than it should be, but it's not impossible.

In regards for any kind of in-depth study, though, I have to agree with Twi. Bast in particular has had about two minutes of panel time in total and none of it was drawn up when David was particularly adept as a writer. Any analysis one might conduct would yield incomplete (or even incorrect) and premature results. Hence why I tend to stay away from those threads -- it's too soon to be speculating on much, really.

Like I said, David probably has pretty solid and understandable reasons for Bast doing what he does. We just need to give him time to sort out the tangle he accidentally made of the first two volumes. (Particularly the first. That's really the biggest offender here.)
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Re: Volume 1 Schoolyard Fight

Postby Clast on Mon May 14, 2012 9:15 pm

Ah, yes, Sorrel you are quite right and I apologize. I got ahead of myself. When I said that, I meant that I would think to myself about this, if others did not share my own interest. If you or Twilight did not want to continue talking with me on the subject, I would make no effort to force you to or continue the topic. I was only trying to explain that I did not want to push my ideas onto you, or force anyone to continue a conversation they had no interest in, if that was the case. However, that being said, I am in complete fault for making such an boisterous claim. In this situation, I believe the only *** made of the assumption is myself.

If a written text could express a sigh with anything more than the word, I would be doing it. You are both right. I will just have to wait until Volume 3 (or later) turns around before I can continue this examination at the level I had previously hoped. For now I will have to be content with what I am told, and thank you for it. Patience is a virtue after all, or so I have heard!
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Re: Volume 1 Schoolyard Fight

Postby Sorrel on Mon May 14, 2012 9:56 pm

Ah, okay then! No harm done. The internet is a wonderful spawner of miscommunications XD
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