Mass Effect 3 - General Discussion

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Re: Mass Effect 3 - General Discussion

Postby Sorrel on Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:48 pm



Thesis Statement for clarity: The Quarians vs. Geth conflict is a really nice concept. The idea of a race of artificial intelligences turning on their makers is as old as science fiction, and for good reason -- it's an exploration of how we ourselves would react to the realization that we've created our own destruction, as well as an inquiry into what exactly makes us "human." But looking at this, I think the way the Quarians are portrayed in ME3 is unideal, because very rarely does an entire nation (let alone species) share such a zealous point of view, and I feel that the final "make peace between these guys" arc would have been more satisfying if it had felt less stylized. [/Thesis.]

I can understand being already committed to a war you've just started, but there comes a point where "commitment" becomes "script-induced obstinacy." If, say, the Israelis were fighting the Palestinians or something, and a bunch of death machines screamed down from the sky to murder everything, those two probably wouldn't instantly agree to be allies -- but you can bet their priorities would shift from killing each other to killing the death machines first. Cease-fires have been negotiated under far less dire circumstances.

So... yes, I understand the Quarians' logic. But at the same time, I feel like it would have reflected more favorably on the species as a whole if Admiral Rael'Zorah's replacement had just turned out to be a warmongering jerkface whom Shepard is tasked with deposing. Such a figure's fall from power would make brokering a peace much easier, and would make the entire situation more forgivable. Countries tend to be less reasonable when one single person is calling the shots, whether they're a true dictator or just a political figure with more behind-the-scenes power than they should. (That, and it would make more sense for Tali not to be a political figure, since there's a chance that a player could have gotten her exiled in ME2. I found it bizarre that an exile could still be elected to such a position, regardless of the largely symbolic nature of Tali's trial. Seriously, why not turn Admiral Daro'Xen into that arc's antagonist? She was chilling.)

I just feel like it would have made the Quarians look better. They're my favorite race, and I cringe every time I see them react with illogical zeal, especially after meeting that one Admiral from the Quib-Quib who seemed very progressive in his views toward the Geth. It's like, "Oh hey, there must be quite a few Quarians who share this guy's opinion if he ended up on the Admiralty Board," and that's not reflected in ME3.

EDIT: I should highlight that I still think the idea of finally dispelling the tension between Geth and Quarian is a pretty cool idea. The whole exploration of what happens when creator turns against creation is an interesting argument, and I like that Bioware played with that so well. I just feel there are better ways to have gone about it, and that Bioware didn't necessarily have to paint the entire species as black-and-white in their views for it to work. In fact, that would have further underscored the theme of "organics are not predictable," which works directly against Plasma Star-Kid McGuffin's assertion that organic life will invariably take a certain course.
Last edited by Sorrel on Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 - General Discussion

Postby Chemical Cutthroat on Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:09 pm

Well...

"I care deeply about the Quarian people."

*chuckles*

We really didn't get to see a lot of what the other Quarians were doing. We just got the Admirals and the poor ******* planetside. One Admiral who wants Peace. Captain Gung-Ho. Xan the Ice-Queen. And Raan who is rather middling. Not the best cross section.

Tali doesn't count because I'm biased.


Oh! Something I wanted to ask! Did anyone kill off the Rachni in the first game? If so, did you still have to deal with Ravagers? Because those things suuuuuck.


*NinjaEdit - That Marauder Shields pic is HILARIOUS. Kudos. More proof I'll never be original.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 - General Discussion

Postby Twilight on Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:22 pm

For your own mental health, Chem, do NOT look at Tali's picture under ANY circumstance D8




Also, what Sorrel was getting at, in a nutshell, isn't that the conflict was bad. Just that the game made it very black and white. Their actions in ME3 reflect 2 things:
1- Any choices/influence you might've established in the past are rendered obsolete.
2- It renders the Quarians really, really stupid, mainly because we see very little reasoning for their overzealous crap other than "the script said so" and instead of being a continuation of any effort you might've put into bringing them to peace in the past is now restarted to the beginning because they're fighting again.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 - General Discussion

Postby Chemical Cutthroat on Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:26 pm

Eh, didn't bother me that much. It was a pretty chopped photoshop job, and the hand looked bad.

All the stuff they added to her was... interesting.

Okay, yeah, it was a cop-out. But at least she's pretty.

...I'm shallow, leave me alone.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 - General Discussion

Postby Chemical Cutthroat on Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:50 pm

On the Quarian note, they had heeded the argument not to war on the Geth at first, but after Admiral Xan developed something to jam the Geth's active scans it gave the Quarians a tactical advantage. So the Quarians jumped on it.

They used this to steamroll the Geth, rolling them all the way back to Rannoch, and that was about the time the Geth made a deal with the Reapers to upgrade them to fight the Quarians. Before the upgrade, the Geth could beat the Quarians... now they could crush them. The Quarian fleet was now committed at Rannoch, and this is when Shepard shows up.

It was the advantage they got fron Admiral Xan that lead to the assault in the first place. They had a tactical advantage that was too good to pass up.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 - General Discussion

Postby Sorrel on Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:03 pm

...Why does all the awesome stuff in this game happen off-screen before the story starts? XD

How cool would it been if Shepard had been there for Admiral Xan's presentation of her findings? What if you had actually been able to stop the Quarians right there before any of this ever happened? And this time, you could have been able to bring Legion along with you (without hacking or resigning to lose the game) and prove to the Admiralty Board that the Geth aren't all evil, or even grudging against them.

I smell Paragon Points.

Or Renegade Points and an epic shouting match.

Dude, this game. Such awesome. But... oh well.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 - General Discussion

Postby Twilight on Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:06 pm

So even though they were told not to be mean *****, and to stop and take a moment to look at the situation and realize that peace could be made, and that would ultimately lead to a stronger survival force against the reapers, the Quarians, as a whole, decided that the best course of action was to throw ALL their ships (even the civilians) at the Geth, completely ignoring the fact that their dumb move would ultimately just cripple their chances at surviving the reaper attack anyway, in the name of recovering a fugly planet that makes Tuchanka look like a resort by comparison (albeit destroyed a little) because it was more important to them to have half their entire race be wiped out in an ending blow to the Geth so they could land on their homeworld and be killed a few weeks later anyway?
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Re: Mass Effect 3 - General Discussion

Postby Sorrel on Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:10 pm

Alas.

Well, at least a lot of people seem to be enjoying the game regardless. Most of the people I've heard protesting about the ending say the majority of their experience was perfect, with the exception of that last ten minutes or so. I guess it's nice that they're getting their money out of it.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 - General Discussion

Postby SuperVaderMan on Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:14 pm

That and hadn't the geth that revered the reapers been a small sect that followed Saren into oblivion? The majority of geth wanted to evolve on their own rather than follow the example of the reapers, but I guess the whole race decided against that now offscreen.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 - General Discussion

Postby Chemical Cutthroat on Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:27 pm

Not at all.

...

Alright, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, but how many of you actually pay attention to all the stuff going on? Because half the arguments/questions so far are either misinformed, or were answered in the bloody game.

I talk to EVERYONE. There's so much dialogue and little nuggets of information to find. Thats the reason I love these ganes. They make me super paranoid I'm going to miss something.

Legion explains the entire situation to you while you're unlocking him. How the Geth only went to 'The Old Machines' because The Creators attacked. The Geth were divided on this for a while, then finally decided to join the Reapers rather than risk getting wiped out by the Quarians. Sure its one crappy situation replaced by another, but such are deals with the devil. I think it is interesting because it shows that the Geth aren't perfect.
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